Sue Maslin on lip Radio

with Vaya Pashos and Bree Roberts

Vaya: Going back to before you were even a producer, did you think that was something you could do?

Sue: Not in a million years! I started at uni doing Science. So I thought I was going to be an animalacologist [sic], studying wonderful furry little animals in a far off corner of Kosciusko National Park. And I loved that, but I also thought, this is a career ahead of me of specialisation. And all I wanted to do was find out about the world. So at the time I was sort of involved actually in community radio at 2XX. And so I used to get behind the panel and interview all sorts of people. But still in Canberra, in those days, there wasn’t any film and television industry or anything like that. However, I thought, well I can’t just drop out of my zoology studies, I have to do something else. So I got into media studies, and it’s just one of those things, completely changed my life.

Vaya: So were you helping out on any friends’ films?

Sue: There were no films happening then. However, there was video. And, unlike now, when everybody can get access to digital video and make their own films… you had to have access to high-end cameras and edit sweeps and so on, you really did need to do a media studies course. I did a one-year course; film, television, photography, sound, film theory, film practice, and just threw myself into it, and from that point on, knew, that I just wanted to tell stories on the screen.

Vaya: And how did you go from wanting that to actually getting jobs, and getting work? – Because it’s so difficult, even now.

Sue: Well, I’ll tell you what, it’s a hell of a lot easier now. Because I sort-of realised at the end of my studies then – no one was going to offer me a job. I mean, producers don’t get offered jobs. You actually have to make your own films and your own videos and programs, and raise the money, and get the people and get people excited about it.

Bree: Is it a risky business? Is it hard, because you obviously have to put money and time and energy into it, and you don’t really know if it’s going to succeed or not.

Sue: Yeah, you’re constantly living for ideas and the belief that you can realise those ideas on the screen. So in some ways I think it’s the easiest job in the world, because as a producer your job, really, is to fall in love with an idea, fall in love with a script. And go through thick and thin, fire and water, to make that idea reach the screen. Because it’s that hard. But, I have to say, when I started out, I just got hold of a video camera and went out and did it. And I did 15 videos. I did rock clips, documentaries, information clips, anything. Anything I could get my hands on to write, produce, direct, and be involved in the craft of making screen work.

Vaya: People would know your recent work in Japanese Story. Can you take us through the process, from inception to realisation?

Sue: Again, that for me was about falling in love with a script. And in this case it was Alison Tilson’s script, she’s one of Australia’s finest screenwriters, and together with Sue Brooks, the three of us had just made, Road to Nhill and we wanted to make another film together, and Alison suggested I read the script. It was just one of those incredibly exciting things, when you read a really beautifully crafted, and poetic, and dramatic work. And it was not like anything I had read before. It sort of took my breath away because it’s pretty audacious plot wise. And there’s things that happen and you just think; ‘Oh God, what is happening here? This cannot possibly be happening’. And you just want to be involved in seeing that idea right through to being on the screen. And it took us a long time. Like, for Alison, probably about 9 years, because she started writing some years before Sue or I got involved. But still, the three of us, it took about 5 years to go through that whole process of finishing the script, raising the finance money, making the film. And then we spent a year on the road, marketing the film.

Vaya: So, you’ve got your director, who gets right in there and helps create it and the actors and the writer. Where do you come in? Because a lot of people get confused as to what the role of a producer actually is.

Sue: Sure. The role of the director very much is about the realisation of the script to the screen, and particularly the casting and the work with the performances. And then of course with all the heads of departments, so whether it’s music, cinematography or editing, their vision is the one that guides that idea to the screen. I see my role as making things happen. So, whatever it takes to assist the director to do their job, as well as the writer to be able to complete the script, and get funded. And then, of course, you’re effectively the employer, so you’re responsible for, financially, legally, health and safety for every single person who works on the film, throughout the process.

Bree: Is it a rewarding experience, or do you feel that perhaps the director gets most of the glory, or the actors, when it comes to film?

Sue: Yeah, look nobody really knows who produces the film. [laughs]

Bree: Unless they read the credits at the end…

Sue: Yeah, you know. It’s a fact of life that when critics write about films it’s the director’s film, and audiences tend to see films as the director’s film. But, as anyone in the business knows, film is an incredibly collaborative business. And it is a result of the core creative team; writer, producer, director – that is what shapes any film.

Vaya: Moving to the other side of what you do. You’re involved in a lot of boards, and organisations, and one of the prominent ones is ‘Women in Film and Television’.

Sue: It’s one thing to be involved in production, and making films. But none of it goes anywhere unless there’s a healthy culture that underpins it. And by that I mean, a culture of appreciation of films.

Vaya: One of the aims I’ve got here is, ‘to promote diverse and positive representation of women on screen-based media’.

Sue: The idea there; and I was involved when we sat down and wrote those aims years ago, is that we do live in a media world, that means of production are, by and large, dominated by men. And the on-screen portrayals; lets face it; are mostly male leading roles. I used to, when I was working with WIFT, every year I would count up the number of central female protagonists; so a leading role for a woman, in Australian films, and you would be lucky to get two, a year. And it’s still like that. This is what’s so tragic about it. I mean, thankfully, this year, we’ve got a couple of very high-profile films, that is, Little Fish and Look Both Ways. But in fact, if you’ve actually looked at all the films on release, they’re nearly all male central characters. So, for this reason, WIFT is very committed to the idea of trying to diversify that, to promote discussion and promote opportunities for women, so that we have more women producers, more women in key-creative roles, more women on the screen.

Bree: And do you see it as important to present portrayals of women, which are maybe not stereotypical, and not confined to the traditional gender roles?

Sue: Oh absolutely! There’s no point in having more stereotypes on the screen. That’s not the idea. I think if we could have a film culture that somehow just reflected what we all know out there in real life – is that women come in all shapes, sizes, from all different walks of life, all different professions, all different cultural backgrounds, religious backgrounds. And we don’t see that on our white-bred screens, by and large.

Vaya: Just on a personal note, I recently, I’ve been doing some extras work. And, once I went to the set of, I think it was MDA, and I was supposed to be a nurse. And I got there, and none of the nurse’s uniforms fit me. They were all size 8 or size 10, and I was clearly 14, 16, and I was really, just, dejected, like, I can’t be a nurse! I have to be a passer-by.

Sue: That’s appalling. I mean, that’s exactly what we’re talking about. And we did run some really great campaigns along those lines, about looking at the types of roles being offered to women, particularly in terms of cultural backgrounds. Because we find, still in our multicultural society, it is not reflected on prime-time television.

Vaya: I find as well, or maybe just from my own experiences in the industry, a lot of the work tends to sort of go in-house. Just, as a writer trying to figure out where I’m supposed to get a foot in the door. Everyone just seems to go ‘we’ve already got someone within our organisation already’.

Sue: Well my biggest tip is that you just try, try, try and try again. Because this business it’s, yes talent will take you so far. But, the people who get the jobs are not the most talented, they’re the ones who have persisted the longest and been the most determined. You have to make your own opportunities as much as possible. I certainly came to Melbourne not knowing anybody. However, it’s such a tough business. There’s so many people out there all wanting to (direct usually) but, get into media. But there’s a lot of great ideas, wonderful ideas for stories on the screen. But I can tell you right now, the only ones that get made are the ones where you don’t take no for an answer. You just come back again, again, again. And women are not very good at this; the boys are onto it. But, as women, we’ve just got to, never take it personally when we get knocked back. Just come back again and again.

Vaya: Gotta grow the thick skin…

Sue: Exactly

Vaya: So what’s your future plan for the moment? What projects have you got in mind?

Sue: Well, in fact, we just finished filming a film called Hunt Angels, which is a non-fiction, feature film. And it’s a story of two people who are kind of con-artists, they’re like Bonnie and Clyde characters; Rupert Kathner and his mistress, Alma Brooks, who, in Sydney in the ’30s and ’40s… scammed their way and got money in all sorts of outrageous ways. But people forgave them because they had this dream, and their dream was to make movies. And at the time there was no Australian film industry. Hollywood controlled everything here, and they actively stopped Australian’s making movies for around 30 years. And these two got a whole bunch of films made before they disappeared and their films disappeared and historians forgot about them. And… we’re now wanting to tell the story of these two maverick filmmakers.

Bree: And I guess there’s a moral in that, if you want to succeed in filmmaking, sometimes I guess you have to resort to sort-of desperate measures.

Vaya: Finally, as a lecturer on the topic, can you leave us with any ‘pearls of wisdom’?

Sue: Well don’t listen to the people who say the Australian film industry is dead, because it’s not. It’s cyclical, it’s coming back. We’ve had good times, we’ve had bad times. But, it’s fuelled by passion, and if you’ve got the passion to do it, then just go out and do it.

Vaya: Thank you very much Sue Maslin, Australian film producer and member of Women in Film and Television.

Sue: Thank you very much.